South Wales Borderers, 24th regiment of foot... Options

[taffy]

I told you some time ago that no man should be out ranked by his daughter.
I have been instructed, nay ordered, (by Staff Sargent Kaz) to post an article on the history of the 24th Regiment of Foot. A Regiment with strong Welsh ties. I only hope you find it of some interest.
Lets start at the beginning (can't think of a better place.) It was on the 8th
of March 1689, that King William and Queen Mary signed the Proclamation for the raising of 10 Regiments of Foot to fight in Ireland. Sir Edward Dering, a Kentish baronet, was given the task of raising one of those Regiments.
Initially the Regiment was named after the gentleman who raised it. Then in 1751, by Royal Warrant, it was given seniority as the 24th Regiment of Foot.
In those days, there were few permanent training depots and most regiments recruited soldiers from wherever they were stationed. The events in Scotland (in the 1750s) and Ireland (in the 1830s) and the growth of the large Cities always provided the majority of recruits for the British Army. Wales was only sparsely populated until the expansion of the coal, iron and steel industries in the late 19th century.
The 24th Regiment most certainly had a link with Warwickshire and this commenced on 31st August 1782 when a Royal Warrant conferred County titles on all regiments not already possessed of special designations such as "The Queen's" or "The King's Own". It was intended that regiments should cultivate a recruiting connection with the Counties whose names they took, and the Twenty-Fourth, who were given the title "2nd Warwickshire", were ordered to send a recruiting party to Tamworth after their return from the American War of Independence. No special link with the County Militia was ever established nor were any Depots or permanent recruiting centres set up in Warwickshire.
(IMG:http://www.egframes.co.uk/24.jpg)
glengarry badge of the 24th Reg. (2nd. Warwickshire)

The Regiment was honoured to carry the title "24th (2nd Warwickshire) Regiment of Foot" until 1st July 1881 when again measures were taken to give County names to infantry regiments of the line. The 24th Regiment, who had established their Depot in Brecon in 1873, became "The South Wales Borderers Regiment". This was the title of one of the Militia battalions that since 1873 had been under the command of the Officer Commanding the Brigade Depot at Brecon.
(IMG:http://www.rrw.org.uk/productimages/80M.jpg)
Cap badge of the South Wales Borderers.

The 24th Regiment of Foot has served the U.K. continuously for over 300 years and has distinguished itself in many campaigns. Perhaps best remembered are the Marlborough campaigns, the America War of Independence and the Sikh wars. Its involvement in the Anglo-Zulu war was both tragic and glorious, Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift are likely to be remembered for many years to come. During this time 23 soldiers have been awarded the Victoria Cross, the highest number awarded to a line regiment.
For the last 130 years, the Regiment has recruited mainly in Wales and continues to do so.
The 24th Regiment had recruited in the Counties of Brecknock, Cardigan, Montgomery, Monmouth and Radnor for six years before the Zulu War. The Welsh influence in the composition of the two battalions of the Regiment in 1879 can be seen by the typical Welsh names of some of the more junior soldiers. There were thirty-four named "Davies", twenty-four named "Evans", fifty-six named "Jones" and fifty-one named "Williams".
In 1936, the Chillianwallah Colours of the 24th Regiment that were carried in the Second Sikh War of 1849 and which had been laid up in St Mary's Church, Warwick since 1868, were removed to the Regimental Chapel in Brecon Cathedral. The Church Council of St Mary's Church, understandably, was not inclined to part with the Colours but the Regiment applied for a faculty for their removal. The case was argued before the Chancellor of the Diocese of Coventry on 6th May 1936, and judgement was given in the Regiment's favour. If fate had taken another turn the 24th Regiment might have become an established regiment of Warwickshire. Had this happened, the Regiment would have been just as proud to be Warwickshire "Lads" as it has been to be Brecon "Boyos".
(IMG:http://www.churchinwales.org.uk/swanbrec/tour/flags1.jpg)
The Regimental colours at Brecon Cathedral.
The spirit of the 24th Regiment is strongly maintained by The Royal Regiment of Wales which came into being in 1969 when the South Wales Borderers Regement was amalgamated with the Welsh Regiment (previously the 41st Foot.)
It is one of the outstanding regiments of the British Army, one with a distinct Welsh flair. Its motto is proudly displayed on the Regimental Colour - "Gwell Angau na Chywilydd" - "Better Death than Dishonour".
The 1st Battalion The Royal Regiment of Wales (24th/41st Foot) currently forms part of 1st (UK) Armoured Division and is based in Paderborn in Germany.

Well, there we are then, as we say in Wales.

I'm sure, that many of you, who are into military history much more than I,
are aware that there is so much more that could be included in this post. If you do want to hear in more detail the history of the 24th Regiment I'll do my best to oblige.

TAFFY

[ham and jam]

Great post Taffy, amazing, if it isnt our wives bossing us about, its our daughters.

Andy

[Ros$-D]

I'm gladd i don't have either yet (IMG:http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/style_emoticons/default/cool.gif)

Not plannig to have some too maybe girlfriend but not wife or a daughter or o child well you get it i think but girlfriends can boss you around to!!!
Aint pretty (IMG:http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

GreetZ
Rochdi

[Custermen]

Great job.....but I'm sure someone will say you left out the whole chapter about their fight at Isandlwana and Rorke's Drift.

Here is a link (not responsible for Pop-ups).
Zulu War
http://fortyfirst.tripod.com/writings/chapter11.htm

Museum Link
http://www.rrw.org.uk/museums/brecon/faq.htm

Colorful Art work
http://www.zuluwarart.co.uk/isandhlwana.htm

Oh, shucks... get your own helmet(replica) worn at Zulu battle
http://www.lawranceordnance.com/new/helmet-pith.html
a mere $175.


Custermen

[taffy]

Thanks Custerman,
Fair comment, but I'm just trying to give a general outline on the regiments with Wels h connections to start. Formation etc. I thought about covering the zulu war exploits of the 24th. Foot but that is a story on its own. I intend to return at a later date and cover the battle honours of the regiments concerned in more detail.
thanks for the interest.
taffy

This post has been edited by taffy: Aug 28 2003, 03:52 PM

[ham and jam]

As Taffy mentions Rorkes drift had the most Victoria crosses won in a single battle (11), but one of them was won by John Rouse Merriott Chard who was not a member of the 24th but a Lieutenant in the Corps of Royal Engineers.
If you remember from the film, Chard (Stanley Baker) is the one Michael Caine ( G Bromhead) didnt get along with at the start.

Apparently in 1972 Stanley baker bought Chards medals at auction for £2,700.
He didnt think he was getting the real VC won by Chard, he thought it was a cast copy, as quite a few are made in case of loss of originals. When Baker died the medals changed hands a few times and is now owned by an anon dealer, who leaves it lodged with Spink and Son, the London medal dealers. They decided to have it subjected to the X-ray fluorescence process at the Royal Armouries. All VCs are struck from the same block of bronze, which is keep under security solely for that purpose. It is believed that the metal was cut from a Russian gun captured at Sabastapol in 1854 during the Crimean War. The tests revealed that the copy of the Chard VC is identical in metallic character to all authentic Victoria Crosses.
So the armouries and Spink and sons believe that Baker actually managed to Buy Chards real VC and not a copy.

Chard died as a colonel in 1897 and is buried at Hatch Beauchamp, Somerset. Baker died without knowing he bought the real VC.

A VC awarded to a South Wales Borderer went recently at auction for £88,000, they reckon with more interest in Rorkes drift now, that a VC would fetch atleast £132,000 which would be a record.

Hope you didnt mind me posting that Taffy its pretty much related to the 24th.

Andy

[taffy]

Sorry I'm a bit late Andy, would'nt want you think I had the "hump" over your post. Stanley certainly picked up a bargain when he bought those medals didn't he?
Any truth in the story that your going to evening classes to learn Russian?
Regards taffy. (IMG:http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[ham and jam]

Lol Taffy, Glasnost Comrade. Its the start of the new Roman empire.

Andy

[taffy]

Andy, tried to think of something russian for 5 minutes before I posted but all I could think of was voka. Are you singing the Volga Boatman at half time?
Cheers taffy (IMG:http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/style_emoticons/default/wacko.gif)

[taffy]

The 125th. Anniversary of one of the most famous moments in Welsh Military history is being celebrated today on a distant battlefield.
Just 145 soldiers from the South Wales Borderers (24th.foot) held off an army of thousands of zulu warriors at the Battle of Rorkes Drift in 1879.
Former soldiers, Zulu Chief Mangosuthu Buthelazi and Welsh 1st. Minister Rhodri Morgan are attending a service at the site of th battle.
Taffy.

[appell8]

Taffy, thank you for the history. "Zulu" has been running on US TV pretty often lately, and it's one of those movies that, as Tony says, you tend to stop and watch again whenever you come upon it. Great stuff. Thanks, Doug

[Jiggersfromsp...]

Dougs right, It was Zulu that prompted me to open that thread.

OODA!
Jiggersfromsphilly

[appell8]

Cool, Tony. I've been singing along with "Men of Harlech" a lot lately.

[Kiwiwriter]

The 125th. Anniversary of one of the most famous moments in Welsh Military history is being celebrated today on a distant battlefield.
  Just 145 soldiers from the South Wales Borderers (24th.foot) held off an army of thousands of zulu warriors at the Battle of Rorkes Drift in 1879.
  Former soldiers, Zulu Chief Mangosuthu Buthelazi and Welsh 1st. Minister Rhodri Morgan are attending a service at the site of th battle.
  Taffy.

I'm glad both sides are able to join together in the commemoration.

125 years ago. Wow. I have to get that film on DVD.

[taffy]

Ivor Emanuel, a well loved Welsh tenor at the time the film Zulu was produced,
played the part of private Williams or was it Jones? Anyway his rendition of " Men of Harlech" was enough to get anybody ready for a fight! (IMG:http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/style_emoticons/default/mad.gif)
Taffy