I stumbled upon this a few months ago and thought I should make you all aware of it.

A petiton was started for Mr. Winters petitioning for the upgrade of his distinguished service cross to the Medal of Honor. The leadership and bravery he showed capturing the guns at Brecourt Manor saving countless lives and the Bayonet charge he himself lead capturing or killing a vast amount of SS Soldiers in Holland to me 'distinguishes himself conspicuously by gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty while engaged in action.' Mr. Winters will never himself say he deserves it, nor does he see himself as a hero.
I signed it as soon as I stumbled upon it, I thought it neccessary to give you all the same oppurtunity.

If you want to sign the petition heres the site:

http://www.506pireasyco.com/new_page_1.htm

I believe this has been posted before.
But it is still good to remind us

Here are some links to feed your intrests:

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.p...+Medal+Of+Honor

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.p...;hl=winters+moh

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.p...;hl=winters+moh

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.p...;hl=winters+moh

http://forums.wildbillguarnere.com/index.p...;hl=winters+moh


Grtz

Steven

Thanks. I tried searching beforehand.
There are now over 27 000 signatures.

It must have been lost in the cyberstorm. It was a major topic for several years here. It was submitted to the Secretary of the Army with a negative recommendation from the awards committee in 2003. The awards felt that the DSC was the proper award for the time. It was introduced as a private bill by Congressman Curt Weldon in 2006 and it remained tabled in committee. The chances of favorable action in the immediate future is unlikely due to the negative recommendation by the awards committee.

Unfortunately so many of the signers and public have not read the guidelines for the awarding of the MOH. They confuse the mini series and reality and invoke actions and feelings that have no bearing to the deeds of 6/6/44. The book and series have nothing to do with it. It was determined 64 years ago on that morning that Major Winters took incalcuable courage and valor and displayed exceptional leadership with his disregard for personal safety in the attack at Brecort Mannor. That is the basis of the upgrade.

Jiggersfromphilly is totally correct. Another reason this is becoming more and more unlikely is that Dick Winters is getting older. He is 90 now, his health is not good, and - God forbid - that "last jump" is drawing closer. And Dick has told me - and others - that if he gets the medal, he wants it while he is still with us, and not posthumously. He has requested that when he is no longer here, the effort ends.

Larry A

I may have it wrong but didn't the 'rules' at that time permit only one CMOH recipient per division for a respective campaign? Wasn't it a choice between awarding the CMOH to Winters or Lt Col Cole? Incidently, Cole's CMOH was awarded posthumously.

My thoughts are that Winters acted very competently leading his ad hoc force in the assault on the gun battery, nothing more. Doesn't the editorial and the end of the episode (Day of Days) state that Winter's attack is considered a 'text book' attack by West Point? Uncommon Valour is not normally on their curiculum.

PFC Joe Mann's (502d Parachute Infantry, 101st Airborne Division) citation is typical of the actions of a CMOH recipient.

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity in action at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty:

He distinguished himself by conspicuous gallantry above and beyond the call of duty. On 18 September 1944, in the vicinity of Best., Holland, his platoon, attempting to seize the bridge across the Wilhelmina Canal, was surrounded and isolated by an enemy force greatly superior in personnel and firepower. Acting as lead scout, Pfc. Mann boldly crept to within rocket-launcher range of an enemy artillery position and, in the face of heavy enemy fire, destroyed an 88mm. gun and an ammunition dump. Completely disregarding the great danger involved, he remained in his exposed position, and, with his M-1 rifle, killed the enemy one by one until he was wounded 4 times. Taken to a covered position, he insisted on returning to a forward position to stand guard during the night. On the following morning the enemy launched a concerted attack and advanced to within a few yards of the position, throwing hand grenades as they approached. One of these landed within a few feet of Pfc. Mann. Unable to raise his arms, which were bandaged to his body, he yelled "grenade" and threw his body over the grenade, and as it exploded, died. His outstanding gallantry above and beyond the call of duty and his magnificent conduct were an everlasting inspiration to his comrades for whom he gave his life.

Steve

I may have it wrong but didn't the 'rules' at that time permit only one CMOH recipient per division for a respective campaign? Wasn't it a choice between awarding the CMOH to Winters or Lt Col Cole? Incidently, Cole's CMOH was awarded posthumously.

There never was a rule in writing ! The Marines were awarded 7 on Iwo Jima.

A number of ideas come to mind which may have already been tried. However, the cause is worthy, and it is our duty to at least try to bring recognization to such an honorable man. What if we were to generate an electronic letter that can go to an indvidual's senator then send it to all our friends, acquaitances, relatives, forums, veteran's groups, blogs, chat rooms, etc etc. Let us create such a ruckus that we attract the news media and obtain their services. What if were to launch such a campaign on Memorial Day or perhaps the anniversary of "D" Day? I am good with words, but lack technical skills.

I say we should at least give it shot.

Happy Easter,
Shelia B

To follow up on my last comment, I also suggest that we enlist our good friends on this list from Belgium, the Netherlands, England, France, Scotland, and any other nation that is represented here. Perhaps they could write their ambassadors in Washington as well as their own leaders.

Shelia

Sheila,

They are all on board already. Check out the Major Dick Winters site. Unfortunately their voices are lost on our public officials, as are non constituents.

I have read the about the massive effort that was made in 2004 on the forum, what came of that? Is the frequent letters still going out?

The Army determined that the upgrade was not feasible as the original award was satisfactory and Rep Weldon left office with the bill not being acted on.

Well, it's not like anyone is a genius in Washington these days. Are we just going to give up?

The public have no say in this matter. The criteria have been well established in the military community and this particular awarding of medals was vetted once and looked over again 60 years later and judged to have been correct in the first place.

Other cases have been revisited with a different result but those petitions were based on new or amplified information. There was nothing new to inform the Winters DSC award, according to those in the Army who look after these things. A book and miniseries and publicity fifty and sixty years after the fact does not constitute new information. That's pretty much all there is to it.

Then to paraphrase Dickens, they are asses.

i signed without a second thought

I have been aware of this campaign for a few years and I am aware that Major Winters does not seek it but having his men campaign for it says a lot. For that reason I support it. But what's a medal? a piece of tin? Why not in it's stead have your name remembered for decades in a mini series and praised by the men under your command?

A great point. It could not have been put better in fact.

Indeed. A mini-series and the immortal praise of those who served with him is enough reward.

Steve

I singed it years ago. but alas I have no faith in DC to get it through before the Major makes his last jump. It's truly unfortunate... but I take real solace in knowing his prayer from the night of 6 June did come true for him.

I agree 100%. People need to remember that a DSC is nothing to sneeze at. Awardees are an elite bunch in their own right. As much as I admire Major Winters' bravery I could not bring myself to sign the petition for the simple reason that I was not there to witness the actions. As far as I was concerned the only ones who had any business petitioning the Army were the men in his unit.

One thing I musrt also mention here. If I'm not mistaken, there is no paper evidence that Col. Sink ever put Winters in for the Medal Of Honor. He told him he would, verbally, but as I recall, when the Army turned the upgrade down, one of the things mentioned was that there was no document from Col. Sink recommending Winters for the CMOH.

If that is, indeed the case, then, as the wise man said, "It ain't gonna happen." Sad but true.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Larry A.

Larry,

Back in 2000 a search of 12 master cases of files on the 506th from the Smithsonian and the records at Ft Campbell turned up nothing. Col Sink's personal files are incomplete due to a fire at his home shortly before he passed. The powers that be stated that if some form of Generals Taylor's order of one decoration , or the original recomendation from Col Sink would suffice. Eight years later neither of these have surfaced.

Most likely the Sink recomendation was lost in the fire. The Taylor order will never surface as it was a verbal offering that has been verified by affidavit from a 101st officer who served on staff.

Thanks for the info. I wasn't sure anymore of the chain of events.

Larry

Oddly enough it was not General Taylor that issued the one MOH per unit, it was supposedly General Eisenhower.
I am not sure when this was actually documented. I also believe that the paper work was submitted for the Major's
MOH but was down graded to the DSC. Unfortunately, all of the paperwork from WW2 was destroyed in a wharehouse
fire in St. Louis, MO. this also is documented some where on the Web. Also, this is what I was told when I was trying
to find information on a relative of my wifes that was in E 506. I find it hard to believe that the military, that is so
anal about things in triplicate does not have a copy of WW2 documentation somewhere, at the very least in the Library
of Congress. The Bill as of now is sitting in the House arm services committee because the chair will not act on it, as
it is soon to expire.

[quote name='JefF_Atown' date='Mar 25 2008, 07:04 PM' post='198994']
Oddly enough it was not General Taylor that issued the one MOH per unit, it was supposedly General Eisenhower.
I am not sure when this was actually documented. I also believe that the paper work was submitted for the Major's
MOH but was down graded to the DSC. Unfortunately, all of the paperwork from WW2 was destroyed in a wharehouse
fire in St. Louis, MO. this also is documented some where on the Web. Also, this is what I was told when I was trying
to find information on a relative of my wifes that was in E 506. I find it hard to believe that the military, that is so
anal about things in triplicate does not have a copy of WW2 documentation somewhere, at the very least in the Library
of Congress. The Bill as of now is sitting in the House arm services committee because the chair will not act on it, as
it is soon to expire.


This is the first time I have heard that it was from General Eisenhower. Do you have a confirmed source for the verbal order? If it was him , then how did the 3rd infantry division have over 30 awarded in the ETO? Military records from WW2 are not kept by the Library of Congress. The records that were stored at the NARA warehouse in St Louis were primarily personnel records and they were not totally destroyed.
many survived and I have seen DD-214 records that are cinged from that fire.

The discussion of what happened to much of the paper work from WW2 is subject to speculation. Plese illuminate us to your search for your relatived records and maybe we can be of some help.

Yes at the very least Jeff, please send a PM with your relatives name. There are a few of us that may be able to help you get some additional info about your relative.
R/
Mooch

Jiggers, we have already had a discussion about my wife's relative on the Major's website. You gave me your E-mail address and Jack Agnew's.
I tried to write to him but never got a response. I am unsure as to whether or not he got the e-mail.

Mooch you also were part of the discussion about my wife's relative on Trigger Time it was on the forum under APO472.
I also contacted the originator of that topic on the forum which happens to be his ID. He is an egotistical agrogant sob that I do not wish to deal with
It seems that when I told that my wife was Dutch's goddaughter he got real testy.

With regard to the Eisenhower info I actually read that on the web I just cannot remember where, since I have been searching for info
on Dutch for about 2yrs. Mark Bando gave me the number for G. Koskimaki and his referral.

I have also tried to contact Jake McNiece about Dutch. But as of yet have not received a reply.

Jiggers, Mooch you can contact me at the Major's website or I can contact you.

Jeff,
Please contact me at ssgtmooch@aol.com.
I will do my best to help you find out as much info on Dutch as I can.
BTW I like your avatar.
Semper Fi,
Mooch