Maybe a dumb question, was Babe a Toccoa man?

Whit

I don't THINK he was. If you remember Wild Bill first spots Babe in the cafeteria at the end of episode 3 CARENTEN. I don't know if Babe was in a different Company or battalion. I am sure somebody else knows for sure. My question is, was Babe younger than Bill? If so by how much? They obviously grew up in the same neghborhood. I thought Babe was one of the first waves of replacements.

Babe is 18 days younger than Wild Bill.

Yowser !
Jiggersfromsphilly

WOW,

No wonder they get along so well!!!

When are their birthdates if you don't mind me asking?

Whit, I know that Babe was not at Toccoa with the original Toccoa men, and think he went through Benning and Mackall. In fact, I just heard that Babe and Julian became friends at MacKall.

Didn't they all go through Benning? I was reading in "Granddaddy was Airborne" that other camps existed for jump training besides Benning.

As long as you're on the subject, I have a question: was Webster a Toccoa man? Because I remember the series depicts him as a Toccoa man, but I remember reading something that said that he came in as a replacement around the time Ep. 4 was set in.
Matt

I think Webster is seen in a few scenes in Episode 1, in particular the run up Mt. Curahee and in the mess hall. Or am I recalling alternative universe memories?

Wasn't Webster in Dog company at first???

thunder35

I think he was with HQ company before joining Easy for the Holland jump.

Cheers!

Mark

Kenyon Webster trained at Toccoa with Fox Company and jumped in Normandy with the HQ company. (source from Webster's page)

All the best,

Morgy

Webster was an original Toccoa man. I would direct you to his web page. Take a look at his letters home for some interesting insights, drawings and maps.

http://www.davidkenyonwebster.com/

John

Thanks Morgy!

thunder35

Thanks a ton. That was weighing on my mind.
Matt

Matt

Webster was injured twice and missed Bastogne but he was definately a Toccoa man. He was in Headquarters Company on D-Day.
I'm reading his book at the moment - very interesting to contrast his side of things to that of Band of Brothers.
There's a great bit when he admits to hating the army but while he had to be in it he was only ever going to be with the 506th. Lots more of the same - well worth a read.

cheers
Tim

Babe Heffron was not a Toccoa man. He joined the company after it returned from Normandy.

He was able to join the company's inner circle of veterans because of his South Philly link to Bill Guarnere, which was a ticket into that circle. He was quickly accepted.

It's interesting that one of the comments I read in the interview with Tom Hanks in the BoB special issue in WW2 magazine was that some replacements were not subjected to hazing when they joined the outfit.

Kiwi,

You figured that most or all were subject to hazing? What kind of hazing?

This doesn't sound good.

I am not sure about this and will ask his daughter to be sure, but if I recall, Babe did not join the company until England. He did not jump with the company on D-day. I have a list of when all the men joined the company which could have some errors but I seem to recall this from conversations as well. I will get back to you all with an answer soon.

Susan

Babe was a rteplacement and joined the company in England. Winters found out he was from South Philly and told him to report to Guarnere. The rest is history. Gene.

I think I read that point in an article on this page. When they were researching the miniseries, Hanks said they expected the new guys to get hazed or treated like dirt when they joined the company.

However, when one replacement said, "Oh, no, they were very respectful, they took me right in," they changed the writing, so that it's more like what happened in "Replacements," where the veterans pretty much cautioned the new guys on behavior, and not to wear the Presidential Unit Citation on their uniforms until they'd earned it.

This is as opposed to the hazing rituals I have seen during my Navy days. There was a big scandal when they found video of Navy SEALs punching diver pins into newly-frocked divers, and some of the more sadistic aspects of promotion ceremonies, like "chiefs' initiation."

They also play similar games on ships with the new guys from boot camp, make them watch for the "mail buoy" or something like that.

From what I read and saw, Easy Company didn't do that. That's because they were in combat. They didn't have time to waste on that nonsense.

I just recalled an interesting anecdote that Doug Spain, who played Tony Garcia in the miniseries, told me last fall. As a "replacement", Doug did not participate in the boot camp the "Toccoa men" actors had to go through. He had worked on another movie or show with Frank John Hughes in the past and was looking forward to working with him again. Doug said when he arrived in England, he was very much given the cold shoulder and treated very much like a replacement, that he had to earn his friendships. He said the producers wanted the "replacement actors" to actually feel like replacements, to feel that sense of not belonging at first. The actors that went through the boot camp truly bonded like the original Toccoa men (whom I am never shy about my pride in saying my dad was among them!), and the replacements came into the company looking up to them. An interesting technique...

Susan

Thanks, Susan. Another reason why this production was so off the charts.

Wow! Thank you for sharing that with us Susan!

gold

Brilliant thinking.

I think they did something similar in "Saving Private Ryan," in which Matt Damon (Ryan) did NOT go through the training the other actors got, so that Tom Hanks' patrol would hate him more.

I guess also like what David Schwimmer did during the bootcamp. He intentionally distanced himself from the other actors and made them hate him

Heffron was not an original Toccoa man. He came in after D-Day with (I believe) Les Hashey, William Miller and Tony Garcia.

For those of you still wondering:

Webster trained with the 506 at Toccoa w/ F Co. but (this is how I understand the story) after someone found about his Harvard background and rich family, he was transferred to the Machine gun Platoon of HQ Co./ 2nd Bn. He fought through Normandy and was wounded near Carentan ("nicked by a tiny piece of shrapnel"). After Normandy, he volunteered for a transfer to Easy to "see the action I missed out on in Normandy while with HQ Co.). He says he missed out on the action but he was wounded and fought some vicious battles in and around (I believe) Vierville.

Anyway, I hope that helped. I have read his book (that's where the quotes are from) and it is an excellent read. I recommend it for anyone interested in Webster's combat career.

Cam

Boy was I late with the Babe and Webster post...oh well. Better late than never.

I heard also that Matt Damon did not participate in the training that the Rangers (and Upham) went through. I used to think that that was just because he did not have as many grueling scenes (D-Day for example) as did the Rangers but now I am thinking otehrwise. Makes sense, though.


Cam

another one of those "book" vs. "series" thing... i think in reality and in the book, webster was not an original easy co. man, but in the series, i think he was being portayed as one. sum 1 pls explain?

Talked to Bill tonight..he is one hellof a guy...He said to put the Kid at Walter Reed in touch with him...Sgt Hogan is a fan as well as a returning Iraq war vet now.... He will be tickled to talk to Bill.

Hey all you out there If you miss the chat you will be sorry as Bill is one of the most down to earth common sense seat of the pants person you will ever meet!

By theway his birthday is the 28th mine the 29th...LOL though Bill has 30 years on me

well this is late , but no babe wasent a Toccoa man, and webster was a toccoa man.
short and sweet

Bump for newbies

I'm going on the BofB European Tour this fall, I'll ask Babe when he joined up with the unit, after I buy him a beer, or two, of course!!

Thanx for the bump....
Catching a fine thread I haven't read is like turning on the TV and catching a rerun of a show you loved, but had missed that particular episode!! Very cool! Not sure if anyone can even begin to figure out what the hell I just wrote! But, thanx... lol