I just finished Beyond Band of Brothers and am curious to see what others have to say about this recent publication ? I think it clears up a lot of things , that up to now were the sunject of some considerable deliberation. It also puts down the Major's leadership theory and the importance of character over training.

Sound OFF !

I just finished the first section and so far it's a superb read, especially since it's coming from the Major himself.

I really enjoyed this final word by the Major himself. But it left me wondering why didn't we get the final word from Larry's book. I think maybe that the ghostwriter being military had something to do with the Major opening up. I enjoyed learning more about the men he served with.

I believe that was ordained that the Major is the last officer from his regiment, he has taken care of his men since he first met them. As a person who has heard many times from his wife "Why do you like watching men getting killed ?" I tell her that's not it at all, it's not hero worship, but it's the brotherhood exemplified in it's truest form by the shared experiences in the most dire situations by these men. They took care of one another just like what you would do if a member of your family was threatened.

Geoff

Great book!!!!! Just wish it were written prior to the series.

Yep great read indeed. Definitely clears up a few things, like Speirs shooting that Sergeant - which was interesting to know !! It was also good to hear it from Major Winter's veiwpoint as well, I especially liked his honesty re the cancelling of the second patrol - I totally agree with his arguement. And as has already been said, it would have added quite a bit to the miniseries - Band of Brother 2 in the wings maybe ?? I don't think so some how.

I've now have (and read) 3 of the BOB books - Ambrose's BoB, Larry Alexander's Biggest Brother, and Major Winter's latest. However, it is also worth reading these in conjunction with what David Webster (Parachute Infantry - an American paratrooper's memoir of D-Day and the fall of the third reich) and Donald Burgett (Currahee - A scraming eagle at Normandy) wrote in order to get a much richer and fuller account. My favourite is David Webster's, written from a grunt's perspective, although all of them are rivetting reading.

I suppose the question now is - where to next ? will this all become just another memory ? and will all these heroes fade away into the mists of time ?

I really enjoyed the book. It was interesting to read The Major's views on Lewis Nixon as their friendship has always intrigued me as they were so different, yet worked together so well. I thought that BBOB (new acronymn!) showed the Major as being more sympathetic to Nixon than before, or have I read everything completely wrong? Being British and with grandparents I fondly remember who were the same generation as the Barnes family I love his appreciation of them. I am new by the way and it is only my admiration for this fine book that has enabled me to dare to post in such elevated company.
So,.... please be nice!

I haven't read it yet. Will order it soon! One question: has the Major something to add to all that's already written about the famous battle at the crossroads on the Island (episode 5)?

Though I haven't read it yet, I do remember seeing/reading something about Maj. Winters writing a book. It sounds as if it expands on Ambrose's "Band of Brothers". Can anyone tell me where I could find "Beyond Band of Brothers"?

I havn't been to any book stores recently but I ordered my copy months ago at Amazon.com.

Geoff, - I would have liked to have done the "final word" but Dick does not open up to people. What he shares in "Beyond the Band of Brothers" is stuff he kept close to his chest that he wanted to tell HIS way, and not in mine or anyone else's.

He gave me - and I gave all of you - the overview of his life - the finer, more personal details are his to relate. This is how he chose to do it.

I just walked into my local Barnes and Noble store and picked one up from the WWII section.



I just finished his section on the island and there were some things in there I don't remember reading anywhere else - which is not to say it's completely new since my memory leaves much to be desired. now where did I set my drink?

Larry, thanks for checking in on this thread. My appreciation of this most recent memoir does nothing to diminish my appreciation of your work. I expect that you know this, but just wanted to say it anyway.

I never thought otherwise.

I am sad to say I have not yet gotten out to get a copy of the book. I am eager to read what Dick DID NOT share with me. The stuff he gave me was good. I can't imagine what he held back.

I've been on the waiting list on Amazon.com since Sept. for this book (I also ordered Larry's book, too!). These two books, as different as they are, are absolutly AWESOME! I read them both in a matter of days and couldn't put them down! They are both very different but all in all excellent reads! Thanks, Larry!!
--Wild Lorie

I second that.

I just got a copy yesterday from Frank P. I will start it as soon as I finish a book I have been reading that I need to get in the mail to Dusty. I cant wait to get started. Cindy

Larry You know I never got to finish yours since it got hijacked to Iraq...that kid of mine..

Larry,
Hope you don't think I denegrated your work, because I really enjoyed it. As I said I think he had a fellow "brother in arms" tell it his way, for the lack of a better expression. It's too bad he didn't share more with you, but it doesn't diminish your work, but simply ads to our knowledge.

Geoff

Ooops forgot to add that I picked up my copy of BBOB at Borders. Ordered it and got it 2 days later.

Geoff - Not a problem. I wish he had shared more too, but he's a very private person. On the other hand, it just means more surprises for me when I read his book.

Great perspective. Larry!

One of the aspects I enjoyed about your book was the insight provided by the letters DeEtta kept all those years and returned to the Major. Your book also told more of his early years, where he was from and the early influences in his life. BBOB naturally was more from his perspective giving detail into his thought process on training and leading troops and explaining how and why he did things the way he did.

I consider both books complimentary additions to my library and I thoroughly enjoyed both of them.

Just whets the appetite for more on the men of Easy.

After a visit to Major Winter's website, I pre-ordered the book, receiving it a week ago. Just finished reading it. Taken along with the Stephen Ambrose Band of Brothers as well as the Spielberg/Hanks miniseries, the story of Easy Company is forever etched in history. A well-written, articulate and (at least to me) very compelling memoir. My only regret is that my knowledge of Easy Company comes so late in the game, with so few of the members still around. I wish I could thank each and every one of them personally for the world they bequeathed me by their service.

This nation has been blessed with incredible people who step up at the right moments in history; Major Winters, "Wild Bill" Guarnere, and their comrades of Easy Company, are sterling examples.

There is no just measure for the debt we, as a society, owe them all. "Thank you" seems so little; yet I've learned it can mean so much to a veteran.

Having said all that, I noted the thread on a MOH for Major Winters and his actions at Brecourt Manor on June 6, 1944. I'm only one voice, but I'll add mine to the letter campaign. This matter is inexcuseably long past being done justice. Bureaucrats...

Well said newbie. By the way welcome and go to the intro. section, step up and report for duty.

Geoff

Just finished it myself and while there are some perspectives from Major Winters you haven't seen yet, there is nothing new in the book from a military standpoint. Not that that's a shock since there isn't a battle you haven't heard about regarding Easy Company just saying if you are looking for new information I doubt you will find it here.

One thing I did find amusing is the pictures section of the book. There is a famous picture of paratroopers marching to the planes on D-Day which has been used in a number of books. In virtually every book I've seen it in, there is a different caption. In Mark Bando's book I believe he states it is a stick from the 502nd. In Don Burgett's book, it is A Company, 506 PIR with Don identified. In Major Winters book it is E Company 506 PIR on their way to embark. I guess someday we'll learn the truth although I tend to believe Bando.

Another picture of contention is the church at Noville. In Major Winters new book, he shows a picture of the church along with another picture of men entering the town. The caption for both are E Company entering Noville after the attack to re-take the town in January. In Don Burgett's book, he has the exact picture of the church but the caption reads the "last picture taken of the church at Noville before it was blown up" after A Companies withdrawal from the town in December. Interestingly enough, he credits Captain Richard Winters for the picture while in Major Winters book, Army Signal Corps is credited for the picture.

EDITED because I am a putz.

I read Dick Winters's biography myself in the last couple of weeks, though I haven't been able to log on here and see what you all think, as well as post my two cents worth. (Crazy work schedule, etc..)

I enjoyed it. It was a little rough in the beginning, and I have a few problems with context, but ultimately I felt it was well written. Memoirs ghost written by another are always rough because you have to rely on the record of interviews. Putting them into a cohesive readable format can't be easy as you might have to sacrifice a sense of verbatim accountting. I'm not sure that was the intention of Winters and his writer, but it did feel a lot like having a nice long chat with the man himself.

I came away from finishing it with a greater sense of what Larry already imparted in his book, "Biggest Brother", which was that Winters was and is a brilliant, humble, and generous man. It saddens me to think that with this the greatest generation possibly goes those qualities with which men are great.

That isn't to say those qualities don't exist in present generations; I'm sure they do, but I haven't really seen much of them. I know I'm possessing of some small portion of these qualites but perhaps not to the degree that Winters seemed to.

Is this an accurate assessment? Is his demi-G-d status obscuring truth?

I wanted to add a comment about the photos. One of the photos contained in the new book is of Winters, Nixon, Sobel and Rousch I think. It also is credited to the Army Signal Corps. Since the negative to that image resides in my bedroom, I don't know how the Army Signal Corp could have taken that shot! It clearly was taken by my dad and is one of many negatives in his collection. I have an idea how it got to them for their book as I know who I have shared it with as a high resolution image and was not asked for permission. I originally was going to loan it to Larry for his book but decided it was such a great shot, that I withdrew permission, wanting to use it myself someday. I told Larry recently I hope he knows I didn't withdraw it from him only to give it to Kingseed as that just isn't the case.

I don't mind my dad's photos and films being used as long as he is credited. For the last year I have been assisting a filmmaker with a documentary about one of the CIA heads that worked in Laos with my dad. It has been my pleasure to help him track down missing copies of my dad's film reels and I have some of them but the rest are scattered in different places. All I have asked for in return is digitized copies of anything copied. In fact, I didn't even ask for that...it was offered.

Anyway, it kind of irked me about that credit as I know that the person who obviously gave it to them know that he got it from me!

My other comment about the book is that it indicates it is all new material but at least with regard to specific quotes from a letter my dad wrote Winters years ago, it was quoted in Band of Brothers and another book by Ambrose, so it is hardly new. Still, I am honored he was remembered in this book.

Susan

Sean, A couple of things ...

To respond to your last point first, our military ranks are filled with young people of great calibre, probably many more than a handful of Winterses among them. If you were to frequent some of the blogs and boards that are populated by these guys, you would realize that we are in very good hands in that regard.

The book reads well; remember first that Winters is not a professional writer, second that he's been telling/writing this story for many, many years and it's probably undergone his editing and tweaking many many times to arrive at this volume. But I do like your characterization of a nice long chat with the man.

I think it's really fascinating how our own personal impression of Richard Winters seems so very intimate having never met or conversed with him -- and this about a man who jealously guards his privacy!! I'm sure that's the reason so many people feel they should be at liberty to ascribe characteristics and motives to him which make their way into the ether and flesh out the portrait, whether verifiable or manufactured. That's how legends are made.

Personally, I think that Winters (and more than a few others I've met in my books over the years) deserves legendary status, just standing there, without all the hype and supposition. BK

Susan, Of course he knew it. But some people operate under the proposition that what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine too!!! BK

In regards to the photo of the paratroopers marching to the plane, when I was pulling photos together for my book, Biggest Brother, Major Winters told me it Co. E, but when I asked Jake Powers, an Easy Co. historian, he told me there is no evidence to confirm that it is Easy Company, but noted it is 2nd Battalion of the 506th, so there was a 1 in 3 chance that it was Easy.

"Beyond Band of Brothers" hit number 10 on the NY Times best-seller list this week. Congratulations.

Congrats!!

I still have to pick up a copy!
Dont have much time to read these days unfortunatley but hey, im looking forward to reading it

Susan,

Since you bring this up in this format I feel it is only just that I respond in kind. First off, your father's photos that you shared with me a few years ago have not gone any futher. In fact they still reside in the same green CD cases that you sent them to me in. I have only looked at them on two occasions. They have never been reproduced nor emailed at any time.

I will say this...that if I had anything to do with this book or the photos contained within I would have been Identified as so. I think the finished product shows that this is the case. The one photo that I gave to RDW in 2002 was identified as such and it was a complete surprise to me.

As I either mentioned or stated to you in an email or converstaion, a number of the pictures you sent me I had seen before. This is because I am confident that your father had sent RD Winters prints or copies over the years. The file on your father shows that they corresponed numerous times between 1946 and the post war years. I had the priveledge to copy the entire set of RDWs photo several years ago. Before I knew you. In this collection appeared several pictures that you had sent along with several that I am convinced were taken by your Father that were not in/on your CDs. It is evident based on the content, clarity and final finish quality. These I will send to you at some point. This is probably why the photo you mention appears in Beyond along with one you don't cite.

In the interim I have met with Col Kingseed and have discussed a punch list of corrections on things such as photo credits as you mention. I was not consulted on the original product but can assure you that the subsequent product will be properly identified.

To discuss this further should you so desire, please contact me off line (or here if you choose).

Currahee!

KidNapEasyWhite

AKA Jake Powers

Jake,

See private email I sent to you,

Best,

Susan

I was very surprised to receive a parcel from the US a week or so ago, and discovered it was a copy of the book signed & sent to me by Dick. Although there was no covering letter explaining why, I soon realised this was to do with a mysterious comment Dick put in a reply to a letter I sent him over a year ago now, saying that a future book on him would include a thought I had inspired in him.

Lo and behold, I've made an appearance in the introduction [I think it's page X] - that's me described as another "young man from England" who wrote about my confusion in why I was writing to him in the 1st place.

Blimey. I was so touched that Dick had sent me a copy I nearly fell off my chair, and even my wife was impressed. Naturally, I'll be sending Dick my thanks and a few dollars to cover the costs he's incurred.

This post isn't me blowing my trumpet or anything - I just thought I'd share another example of what a generous and thoughtful man Dick is. His book - which I'm keeping unread to give to my children one day - will be treasured by me.

I went back after posting that and checked both books and, of course, I was wrong. There was a similar picture in Don Burgett's book but not the same one so I would like to retract my earlier comments regarding that photo.

The photo regarding the church is the very same as the hand drawn arrow appears in both photo's. My guess would be that the capture in Mr. Burgett's book is correct but I'm going to shut up and let those who know, like Mr. Powers, discuss the issue. I just read the books.

Jst picked up Stephen E. Ambrose's Band of Brothers...

They didnt have Dick's book

Wow... that must have been a huge surprise indeed! What an unique story. Thanks for sharing. I am reading "Beyond ... " myself now. Having read BoB and Biggest Brother before, I didn't expect to read real new info... but it's nevertheless a very good read. I often get the feeling that Major Winters wrote this book to 'clearify' some things that were written, said or portrayed in the recent past about him or Easy Company. His view about Sobel, for instance.

A little question: I had never heard about the Curahee-mascotte before. Winters writes that they took that mascotte with them on the famous forced march to Atlanta. Does anyone know how that mascotte looks like and if it's still in the possession of the 101st AB (or perhaps a museum)?

Ditto in UK - Amazon is your best bet.

Ian

There was a dog that DeWitt Lowery carried on his back. The dogs name was "Draftee". There is a picture of him in the pack of DeWitt on the march. DeWitt is carrying a machine gun and Burr Smith is walking behind him.
The dog was most likely left behind with a friend or sweetheart when they moved to Ft Benning.

Photo of Dewitt Lowrey with "Draftee", Burr Smith behind them.

Thanks guys... that answers my question. .

Another question...

We all know that Major Winters was billited with Mr. and Mrs. Charles Barnes in Aldbourne. The son of this couple was serving in the RAF and fought during the Battle of Britian.

According to "Beyond Band of Brothers", the name of this son was ROBERT Barnes. And if I remember it well, the book says that Robert Barnes was already KIA (I might be wrong there) at the time Easy arrived in Aldbourne.

Thirsty for more info, I did some digging on the internet, but couldn't find the name Robert Barnes on any RAF Roll Call list.

I did some more digging and then found this interview with an Aldbourne-resident, Mrs Nancy Barett, who states that she remembers Dick Winters very well and also mentions the son of the Barnes.

As a life long resident of Aldbourne and now well in to her eighties, Mrs Nancy Barrett clearly remembers Lt. Dick Winters. She commented when interviewed, “I can’t boast the fact that I knew Dick Winters well or even got to shake hands with him. I didn’t get to know him, but I knew of him. He had charisma for sure. He was billeted with Mr. and Mrs. Charles Barnes, who ran the grocery shop on the corner of Castle Street. Their daughter Stella who also lived in the house, was my best friend. Their son Leonard, was away in the RAF, and I think they liked having Dick Winters and the other officer living with them, as they missed their own son being home”. Although Leonard did not die in combat, he died soon after the war as a result of injuries he sustained during his time with the RAF and is buried in Aldbourne churchyard.

I checked the RAF Roll of Honour and found a Sgt. L.D. Barnes, who survived the war. He served in three different squadrons (257-615-607).

RAF ROLL OF HONOUR

Could it be that the son of the Barnes wasn't named Robert, but Leonard??? Or are "Leonards" called "Robert" in the English language (like Williams are often called Bill )?

Any clearification on this subject is very welcome.

Yer im gunna have to check out Amazon, i paid alot for the band of brother book, not complaining just it was alot cheaper elsewhere hehe

Bart, I checked my Aldbourne photos from the 2002 BOB Tour. A plaque inside the church commemorates "Leonard J. Barnes, Cpl. RAF."

A grave marker outside reads

"919913 Corporal
L. J. Barnes
Royal Air Force
12th June 1942 Age 26."

The greatest benefit of this website: instant answers to detailled questions!
Thanks a lot, Doug!

So this information means that a lot of people are 'wrong' about Leonard Barnes...

- Major Winters for calling him Robert instead of Leonard
- Mrs. Barrett for saying that Leonard didn't die in the war, but afterwards
- And last but not least myself for mixing up facts and fragments.

Thanks again, Doug. I'll try to find L.J. Barnes on the rollcall again, by searching on his ID-number.

Bart, it's possible that Leonard Barnes wasn't on the roll because it may have been considered that the "Battle of Britain" ended before 1942. Certainly the peak of the Battle was in 1940. Don't know, but it's one possibility.

And it may be that the Barneses called their son by a name other than his formal given name. "Leonard" does not normally equate to "Robert," but who knows?

Puzzles are part of the fun of studying history.

Here's Leonard John Barnes on the CWGC:

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_detail...asualty=2709800

Curious what his story is. He was a Corporal, so he wasn't operational aircrew.

Excellent. That completes my search for today. Thanks!

Mat, could he have been a crew member on a bomber?

I don't think so, in all my readings it seems that the lowest possible rank of aircrew was Sergeant - regardless of their position in the aircraft (ie you could have a Sgt piloting the thing and in command, with an officer doing the navigating). I've never heard of a Corporal being in a bomber crew in 1942, and certainly not a fighter.

I think he was ground staff of some sort. He could have been a trainee, but I don't know about trainee ranks, and whether they let Corporals fly even in training - I would doubt it though.

But then, I may be wrong

This was definitely the case in the U.S. Army Air Corps. It was discovered that the Germans only treated captives with the rank of Sergeant or above as non-commissioned officers (even though the U.S. considered Corporals as NCO's) hence they received better treatment at POW camps. As a result, if you were flying crew on a bomber, you were automatically at least a Sergeant.

Bobfish -

That's a great website - never knew it existed. Interesting to search on your own surname if, like me, you have a rare one. Thanks for bringing it to light.